va_labor2002
07-28 01:36 PM
What other investment options are available for a GC waiting H1B person.
Can we start a company ? Is it legal ? Can we start a Online web based company ?
Any advices from Gurus !!
I agree house prices are falling across US, if one wants to make a quick buck, house may not be the best option. If the prices and interest rate swing, u will loose big time. It is a nice coffee talk however.
Take for example my friend pays 40 K mortgage per year, and the house price depreciated by 60 K here. he bought it in 2004. Now if he sells he makes 60 K less, + deposit, 80 K two years rent... so in effect, he cud have lived happily for 1200 rent per month, paying abt 30 K for two years and saved the moeny and headache and now he is not finding buyers - as there are lots of houses on sale. This is one of the best areas near San Jose.
So moral of the story is use commonsense. It is easy to give simple advices, if you do not weigh all factors age, job, how long u can repay etc, it will give u insight into affordability and the risks. We folks always look at an X or Y who made money, there are X-n people who also lost, which we tend to overlook for our convenience.
Can we start a company ? Is it legal ? Can we start a Online web based company ?
Any advices from Gurus !!
I agree house prices are falling across US, if one wants to make a quick buck, house may not be the best option. If the prices and interest rate swing, u will loose big time. It is a nice coffee talk however.
Take for example my friend pays 40 K mortgage per year, and the house price depreciated by 60 K here. he bought it in 2004. Now if he sells he makes 60 K less, + deposit, 80 K two years rent... so in effect, he cud have lived happily for 1200 rent per month, paying abt 30 K for two years and saved the moeny and headache and now he is not finding buyers - as there are lots of houses on sale. This is one of the best areas near San Jose.
So moral of the story is use commonsense. It is easy to give simple advices, if you do not weigh all factors age, job, how long u can repay etc, it will give u insight into affordability and the risks. We folks always look at an X or Y who made money, there are X-n people who also lost, which we tend to overlook for our convenience.
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kushaljn
09-17 12:10 PM
Voting going on for 6020
Humhongekamyab
07-02 03:00 PM
I am not contradicting you but just guaging the effect on employers. I aggree that if complaints keep pouring in, the equation changes. But as of now, I see only a few employers on that website and they have just been barred for few years
Sorry for jumping the gun; it sounded like a contradiction. My bad.
If you look at the ICE's public releases you will see they start investigating a case months before they announce their conclusions. I know in some cases the employers will be able to get away with small fines but we should not let this stop us.
Sorry for jumping the gun; it sounded like a contradiction. My bad.
If you look at the ICE's public releases you will see they start investigating a case months before they announce their conclusions. I know in some cases the employers will be able to get away with small fines but we should not let this stop us.
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Vexir
06-14 01:29 PM
Okay I remade my pod, I don;t like the other one, forget about it.
Here are two new ones, same design, different concept on em, I can't decide which one, so someone tell me which =)
Since we had so many circular-vectorish looking pods I said hey down with the circle IN WITH THE SQUARES!
I present to you:
The Carbon Pod
http://www.graphicslash.com/filehosting/Kirupa/ipodskin/carbonpod.png
aaaand, The OraSquare Pod
http://www.graphicslash.com/filehosting/Kirupa/ipodskin/orasquarepod.png
Comments and critiques are appreciated and wanted! :)
Cheers,
Vex :thumb:
Here are two new ones, same design, different concept on em, I can't decide which one, so someone tell me which =)
Since we had so many circular-vectorish looking pods I said hey down with the circle IN WITH THE SQUARES!
I present to you:
The Carbon Pod
http://www.graphicslash.com/filehosting/Kirupa/ipodskin/carbonpod.png
aaaand, The OraSquare Pod
http://www.graphicslash.com/filehosting/Kirupa/ipodskin/orasquarepod.png
Comments and critiques are appreciated and wanted! :)
Cheers,
Vex :thumb:
more...
sledge_hammer
02-01 02:46 PM
Believe it or not, I know a consultant who lives in one of those "guest houses" where consultants who come from India are housed, and there is a guy who lives there whose job is to cook, clean and buy groceries for the housmates. HE HAS A GC APPLICATION PENDING! And people like me and many others who truely deserve to be hired and retained in this country are facing an uphill task of getting through the GC process.
That cook guy came to the US with a Bachelor degree in commerce, called B.Com. He hasn't been able to get a project for 4 3 years now. He doesn't get paid by the company. He is just a freeloader living there.
Imagine how many suck "cooks", "maids", and gas station employees might be out there clogging up the system!
That cook guy came to the US with a Bachelor degree in commerce, called B.Com. He hasn't been able to get a project for 4 3 years now. He doesn't get paid by the company. He is just a freeloader living there.
Imagine how many suck "cooks", "maids", and gas station employees might be out there clogging up the system!
jsb
03-11 08:19 AM
I am trying to get the original question info from him. Probably he will read the thread and answer it.
"EB Applications pending from India" is very vague, and most probably is not what we are looking for.
USCIS has indicated earlier that they don't know chargeability country until application is ready for approval, which may be true although we didn't want to believe this. Most likely until 485 application is approved birth country is not written anywhere other than the paper application. In most 485 application cases (family, EB and others), chargeability country is a just a matter of recording at approval time. At final approval time, when birth country is found to be retrogressed, application goes back to pending (or cold storage), but ready to approve. This also explains why cutoff dates have to rely purely on guess work, and move back and forth.
For proper handling of cases for retrogressed countries, USCIS/DOS really have no workable method in place.
"EB Applications pending from India" is very vague, and most probably is not what we are looking for.
USCIS has indicated earlier that they don't know chargeability country until application is ready for approval, which may be true although we didn't want to believe this. Most likely until 485 application is approved birth country is not written anywhere other than the paper application. In most 485 application cases (family, EB and others), chargeability country is a just a matter of recording at approval time. At final approval time, when birth country is found to be retrogressed, application goes back to pending (or cold storage), but ready to approve. This also explains why cutoff dates have to rely purely on guess work, and move back and forth.
For proper handling of cases for retrogressed countries, USCIS/DOS really have no workable method in place.
more...
logiclife
02-05 05:27 PM
Ok Logiclife, i did not intend to start a war or anything of the sort. I was just giving suggestions in light of the fact that inspite of IV working VERY hard, nothing is happening on the GC front. That is the ONLY reason I put up this post.
One more thing. You mentioned that a lot of people are not contributing, maybe the reason is that not everyone wants a GC that desperately. Some people are fine with working here temporarily and then going back after making some money. Besides some members who have contributed in the past may be wondering if it even makes sense to contribute again, being that there has been no real progress on the GC front since Dec 2005 (the birth of IV). Now do not get me wrong I KNOW how hard the IV team has worked and how many time we came SO SO SO close to getting our dreams realized in the Senate only to be crushed in the house again.
My point was, maybe it is time to face the facts. The government has changed but the basic attitude towards the "immigrant" is the same. This is because the average American, views immigrants as a threat. Now we can argue all we want on that statement, but in our hearts we know that the "AVERAGE American" would rather Not have immigrants come to the US (legal or illegal). In light of these events does it not make sense to ask for simpler goals? Goals like 485 filing or H4 Eads etc. Sure it makes us look weak in front of the anti-immigrants, but then are we here to solve our problems or to prove the anti-immigrants wrong?
Lastly this was NOT a threat nor was it intended to be a Threat that "take my advice or i will leave". Just a simple suggestion in light of things to come.
I know you are not threatening to leave. But eventually some one will. It always happens when one or other item is included or excluded from agenda.
Anyways, this isnt about looking weak or strong against anti-immigrants. That is really not the issue here.
Its about how much we can have in our list of items. There is only so much anyone can do. Forget about us, even bigger organizations have priorities in order. Immigration Voice also has to have a priority. We cannot talk to anyone about fixing the H4 issues before the issues of retrogression are talked about. And we cannot talk about ALL OF THEM because there is room for only so much to talk about. There is a limit on everything. Limit on how much funds we have, limit on how much political capital does our lobbyist spend on our organization with lawmakers, limit on how much leverage the lawmaker uses to sponsor an amendment for us. No one has unlimited capacity to get things achieved. So in that sense, H4 issues really cannot be on the list. And as far as "nothing is happening, let's get temporary relief and let's not fight for more numbers" idea is concerned, we are already doing that by trying to get 485 filing provision done in next few days as a temporary relief. Now tell me, how is that not tied to H4s. EVERY SINGLE ITEM on our goals benefits H4 spouses indirectly. Including the short term goals of IV.
One more thing. You mentioned that a lot of people are not contributing, maybe the reason is that not everyone wants a GC that desperately. Some people are fine with working here temporarily and then going back after making some money. Besides some members who have contributed in the past may be wondering if it even makes sense to contribute again, being that there has been no real progress on the GC front since Dec 2005 (the birth of IV). Now do not get me wrong I KNOW how hard the IV team has worked and how many time we came SO SO SO close to getting our dreams realized in the Senate only to be crushed in the house again.
My point was, maybe it is time to face the facts. The government has changed but the basic attitude towards the "immigrant" is the same. This is because the average American, views immigrants as a threat. Now we can argue all we want on that statement, but in our hearts we know that the "AVERAGE American" would rather Not have immigrants come to the US (legal or illegal). In light of these events does it not make sense to ask for simpler goals? Goals like 485 filing or H4 Eads etc. Sure it makes us look weak in front of the anti-immigrants, but then are we here to solve our problems or to prove the anti-immigrants wrong?
Lastly this was NOT a threat nor was it intended to be a Threat that "take my advice or i will leave". Just a simple suggestion in light of things to come.
I know you are not threatening to leave. But eventually some one will. It always happens when one or other item is included or excluded from agenda.
Anyways, this isnt about looking weak or strong against anti-immigrants. That is really not the issue here.
Its about how much we can have in our list of items. There is only so much anyone can do. Forget about us, even bigger organizations have priorities in order. Immigration Voice also has to have a priority. We cannot talk to anyone about fixing the H4 issues before the issues of retrogression are talked about. And we cannot talk about ALL OF THEM because there is room for only so much to talk about. There is a limit on everything. Limit on how much funds we have, limit on how much political capital does our lobbyist spend on our organization with lawmakers, limit on how much leverage the lawmaker uses to sponsor an amendment for us. No one has unlimited capacity to get things achieved. So in that sense, H4 issues really cannot be on the list. And as far as "nothing is happening, let's get temporary relief and let's not fight for more numbers" idea is concerned, we are already doing that by trying to get 485 filing provision done in next few days as a temporary relief. Now tell me, how is that not tied to H4s. EVERY SINGLE ITEM on our goals benefits H4 spouses indirectly. Including the short term goals of IV.
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belmontboy
04-19 10:36 PM
LOL! You are pathetic, aren't you. You judge people, yet know little about them. I am a Stern MBA alumni. And I vouch, it didn't bring me much. Education isn't the end all / know it all, when it comes to getting your job done. Thought and those brain cells count. Respect, and the ability to never undermine those who are in the same boat as you, count even more. But hey, do attempt that "Masters" -- perhaps you shall grow up.
Hey Ryan,
Why didn't your MBA help you much?
No offense, but of all MBA'ites I have spokeN to, only you have said so.
What was your expectation from mba, and what did you end up with??
Thanks
Hey Ryan,
Why didn't your MBA help you much?
No offense, but of all MBA'ites I have spokeN to, only you have said so.
What was your expectation from mba, and what did you end up with??
Thanks
more...
eb3_nepa
02-05 05:16 PM
Ok Logiclife, i did not intend to start a war or anything of the sort. I was just giving suggestions in light of the fact that inspite of IV working VERY hard, nothing is happening on the GC front. That is the ONLY reason I put up this post.
One more thing. You mentioned that a lot of people are not contributing, maybe the reason is that not everyone wants a GC that desperately. Some people are fine with working here temporarily and then going back after making some money. Besides some members who have contributed in the past may be wondering if it even makes sense to contribute again, being that there has been no real progress on the GC front since Dec 2005 (the birth of IV). Now do not get me wrong I KNOW how hard the IV team has worked and how many time we came SO SO SO close to getting our dreams realized in the Senate only to be crushed in the house again.
My point was, maybe it is time to face the facts. The government has changed but the basic attitude towards the "immigrant" is the same. This is because the average American, views immigrants as a threat. Now we can argue all we want on that statement, but in our hearts we know that the "AVERAGE American" would rather Not have immigrants come to the US (legal or illegal). In light of these events does it not make sense to ask for simpler goals? Goals like 485 filing or H4 Eads etc. Sure it makes us look weak in front of the anti-immigrants, but then are we here to solve our problems or to prove the anti-immigrants wrong?
Lastly this was NOT a threat nor was it intended to be a Threat that "take my advice or i will leave". Just a simple suggestion in light of things to come.
One more thing. You mentioned that a lot of people are not contributing, maybe the reason is that not everyone wants a GC that desperately. Some people are fine with working here temporarily and then going back after making some money. Besides some members who have contributed in the past may be wondering if it even makes sense to contribute again, being that there has been no real progress on the GC front since Dec 2005 (the birth of IV). Now do not get me wrong I KNOW how hard the IV team has worked and how many time we came SO SO SO close to getting our dreams realized in the Senate only to be crushed in the house again.
My point was, maybe it is time to face the facts. The government has changed but the basic attitude towards the "immigrant" is the same. This is because the average American, views immigrants as a threat. Now we can argue all we want on that statement, but in our hearts we know that the "AVERAGE American" would rather Not have immigrants come to the US (legal or illegal). In light of these events does it not make sense to ask for simpler goals? Goals like 485 filing or H4 Eads etc. Sure it makes us look weak in front of the anti-immigrants, but then are we here to solve our problems or to prove the anti-immigrants wrong?
Lastly this was NOT a threat nor was it intended to be a Threat that "take my advice or i will leave". Just a simple suggestion in light of things to come.
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shirish
06-19 10:46 AM
My dad, had to use the insurane, unfortunately. All the hospitals, docs offices billed the insurance company directly. I had to pay only for the prescription medicine after he was discharged, as pharmacies bill online, and they do not have online setup with indian companies's adjusters here.
Icici lombard paid as per the coverage, it took a while, but was was mostly due to my dad's doctor back in india took long time to respond to their questions. I am not sure on the 70+ factor, as my dad was 61 that time.
Hope this helps.
Is there website to buy insurance from Indian companies? Do they cover emergency treatment for 70+ years old? I have heard it is very difficult to have claim processed through them. Do you have any personal experience?
Icici lombard paid as per the coverage, it took a while, but was was mostly due to my dad's doctor back in india took long time to respond to their questions. I am not sure on the 70+ factor, as my dad was 61 that time.
Hope this helps.
Is there website to buy insurance from Indian companies? Do they cover emergency treatment for 70+ years old? I have heard it is very difficult to have claim processed through them. Do you have any personal experience?
more...
obviously
07-15 10:42 PM
Folks -
Two pronged approach to fix Lou's bigotry:
1. Mail an empty trashbag to Lou Dobbs, to reach by July 31
Let us each mail an empty trashbag with a covering note highlighting how biased and untrue his 'reporting' is.
Mail to:
Trashbags for Lou Dobbs Senseless Bigotry
1 CNN Ctr
NW Atlanta,
GA 30303
(or)
Trashbags for Lou Dobbs Senseless Bigotry
One CNN Center, Box 105366, Atlanta GA 30303
Imagine, what THOUSANDS OF TRASH BAGS would do in terms of media coverage and buzz!
Trashbag = $0.05
Mailing = $0.39
Opportunity to remedy the bigotry = PRICELESS
2. File online complaints at following direct links!
Report Errors on CNN TV
Send an online report NOW (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form6a.html?2)
Send a story idea (on high skill legal immigration)
Link here (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form11b.html?2)
Lou Dobbs Tonight - Comment on the show
Link here (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?76)
"]http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?76 (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?76)
These will be more effective than trying to boycott Toyota, or other advertisers. Let us get direct and rebuke CNN for their shameless attacks on high skilled hardworking immigrants who continue the tradition of working towards the Great American Dream.
Cheers!
Two pronged approach to fix Lou's bigotry:
1. Mail an empty trashbag to Lou Dobbs, to reach by July 31
Let us each mail an empty trashbag with a covering note highlighting how biased and untrue his 'reporting' is.
Mail to:
Trashbags for Lou Dobbs Senseless Bigotry
1 CNN Ctr
NW Atlanta,
GA 30303
(or)
Trashbags for Lou Dobbs Senseless Bigotry
One CNN Center, Box 105366, Atlanta GA 30303
Imagine, what THOUSANDS OF TRASH BAGS would do in terms of media coverage and buzz!
Trashbag = $0.05
Mailing = $0.39
Opportunity to remedy the bigotry = PRICELESS
2. File online complaints at following direct links!
Report Errors on CNN TV
Send an online report NOW (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form6a.html?2)
Send a story idea (on high skill legal immigration)
Link here (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form11b.html?2)
Lou Dobbs Tonight - Comment on the show
Link here (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?76)
"]http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?76 (http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?76)
These will be more effective than trying to boycott Toyota, or other advertisers. Let us get direct and rebuke CNN for their shameless attacks on high skilled hardworking immigrants who continue the tradition of working towards the Great American Dream.
Cheers!
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wikipedia_fan
05-05 02:18 PM
Forum Gurus - I got a denial letter on my 485. I am a July 2007 filer and applied for AOS in July 2007. My 140 was revoked by ex employer in August 2008 and immediately I got a NOID from USCIS and responded to it in a timely manner and my case processing resumed.
But now, I got a denial stating that my 140 has been revoked in August 2008 and thats why my 485 is denied. My Attorney is filing for MTR and says it is a mistake on their side and will be resolved through MTR.
It just baffles me that the person who sent the denial letter never looked into the system to see my case trail and blindly issued the denial notice. My Attorney says, it is very much possible that they do not look at RFEs or responses - they just issue denials when they browse through the 140s.
I am EB2 India with a priority date of March 2006. I think some kind of pre assessment is going on. There are no LUDs and mine is at the TSC.
Is there anyone else in the same boat? How long does it take for MTR to get processed?
Folks I have an update on my case.
We filed for Motion to reopen on which were receipted on March 27th, 2009. I wrote to Congressman, Senators and also Ombudsman. Today my congressman's office got an update that our MTRs were approved on April 30th and our 485s got reopened and they have sent letters to that effect.
What a relief. It was a stressful 6 week ordeal. Thanks to IV and its members for the help and support.
But now, I got a denial stating that my 140 has been revoked in August 2008 and thats why my 485 is denied. My Attorney is filing for MTR and says it is a mistake on their side and will be resolved through MTR.
It just baffles me that the person who sent the denial letter never looked into the system to see my case trail and blindly issued the denial notice. My Attorney says, it is very much possible that they do not look at RFEs or responses - they just issue denials when they browse through the 140s.
I am EB2 India with a priority date of March 2006. I think some kind of pre assessment is going on. There are no LUDs and mine is at the TSC.
Is there anyone else in the same boat? How long does it take for MTR to get processed?
Folks I have an update on my case.
We filed for Motion to reopen on which were receipted on March 27th, 2009. I wrote to Congressman, Senators and also Ombudsman. Today my congressman's office got an update that our MTRs were approved on April 30th and our 485s got reopened and they have sent letters to that effect.
What a relief. It was a stressful 6 week ordeal. Thanks to IV and its members for the help and support.
more...
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grupak
06-11 01:31 PM
Called all 6 rep's offices plus my local north carolina 4th district rep David Price.
...Felt great and encourage everyone else to give it a try....Try calling just one of them and you will feel the urge to call all of them and do your part...
I know the feeling. Great job.
...Felt great and encourage everyone else to give it a try....Try calling just one of them and you will feel the urge to call all of them and do your part...
I know the feeling. Great job.
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jingi1234
12-13 10:48 AM
Was this the first attempt to get to USA? OR
were you working in USA and went for a visting to INDIA?
I was on F1 (to OPT to H1b) and planning to visit india in January,. I have to go for stamping.
Thanks
were you working in USA and went for a visting to INDIA?
I was on F1 (to OPT to H1b) and planning to visit india in January,. I have to go for stamping.
Thanks
more...
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JS2225
09-02 05:16 PM
Thanks.
I have another question:
If the PERM was filed in a different state should the person move to that state after GC approval? This is under the assumption that the person continues to work for the sponsor company.
I have another question:
If the PERM was filed in a different state should the person move to that state after GC approval? This is under the assumption that the person continues to work for the sponsor company.
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sparklinks
07-20 12:50 PM
Signed by R.WILLIAMS at NSC For any one?
Mine also received by R. WILLIAMS on July 2nd at 7:55 AM.
Mine also received by R. WILLIAMS on July 2nd at 7:55 AM.
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javadeveloper
11-25 08:10 AM
What are the steps to follow to switch over to EAD, do i have to fill out some form and how do i i nform uscis ?
Use EAD for working by filling I-9 form with your employer.Informing USCIS is optional.
Use EAD for working by filling I-9 form with your employer.Informing USCIS is optional.
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WaldenPond
11-13 04:11 PM
WaldenPond,
Thanks for all the efforts you have made for us. Just contributed 200$ , please ask others to contribute too. Together we all need to give that one last giant push......
Friends ,
I appeal to all of you, this is the best time to start enegizign ourself and contribute for the cause.... I have done my second contrbution ...let's do it..
Hello anurakt,
Thank for contributing again to IV. You and other members like yourself would be the reason for IVs success in changing the flawed green card system.
Thank you for encouraging other IV members for contributing. As you know, this is very important and more amongst us should encourage our fellow IV members to contribute. Often times it is evident that few IV members are struggling to keep a positive tone on the forums. As you may have experienced, it is easy to post few messages here and there. The message of some of these posts is to throw out ideas for others to implement. But in the end, the success of our community will depend on the contribution from kind members like you. Thank You.
Regards,
WaldenPond
Thanks for all the efforts you have made for us. Just contributed 200$ , please ask others to contribute too. Together we all need to give that one last giant push......
Friends ,
I appeal to all of you, this is the best time to start enegizign ourself and contribute for the cause.... I have done my second contrbution ...let's do it..
Hello anurakt,
Thank for contributing again to IV. You and other members like yourself would be the reason for IVs success in changing the flawed green card system.
Thank you for encouraging other IV members for contributing. As you know, this is very important and more amongst us should encourage our fellow IV members to contribute. Often times it is evident that few IV members are struggling to keep a positive tone on the forums. As you may have experienced, it is easy to post few messages here and there. The message of some of these posts is to throw out ideas for others to implement. But in the end, the success of our community will depend on the contribution from kind members like you. Thank You.
Regards,
WaldenPond
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fromnaija
07-21 06:56 PM
For me the frustrating aspect is that my first son is in college. Arizona State University is forcing me to pay out-of-state fees and have stated that I could only pay in-state tuition after filing I-485! So the money I could have invested in business is going to college tuition. Another son is in senior class in high school and will be going to college next year. Yet another son will be going to college in 2008.
I have thought of going back to Nigeria but I'll like my sons to finish college here. So, I have decided to stay until I get GC. My wife and I are both studying for Masters (another big expense for us!).
We spend most of our time between studies, volunteering and other community activities.
Could others on this forum who have college-age kids tell me how they and their families are coping with expense of college tuition?
I have thought of going back to Nigeria but I'll like my sons to finish college here. So, I have decided to stay until I get GC. My wife and I are both studying for Masters (another big expense for us!).
We spend most of our time between studies, volunteering and other community activities.
Could others on this forum who have college-age kids tell me how they and their families are coping with expense of college tuition?
njboy
01-30 09:55 AM
so those with substituted labor better hope it clears before april 2007, and they get to file i140 otherwise..they'll have to file a new labor..just hope DOL does not let them keep the old priority date..Im not being vindictive..just feel that its unfair that people buy labors for 20K and get green card using a shell company in 6 months.
Maverick1
11-14 12:43 PM
......................... If Gandhi can sucessfully take on the mighty British Empire "where the Sun never sets" with just a loin cloth and a staff, We are better equipped with Megaphones and Placards! Agreed I'm not a Gandhi, but then neither is Lou Dobbs, the emperor of a mighty empire with millions of soldiers at his command............................[/B]
I thought you would go there :) :)
He is on a book tour now and be prepared to see him on all major shows. Do you seriously think these stations will stop inviting him when you write to them ? CNN stop him from what he is doing of they receive 2000 letters ? There is a time and place for every thing....
I thought you would go there :) :)
He is on a book tour now and be prepared to see him on all major shows. Do you seriously think these stations will stop inviting him when you write to them ? CNN stop him from what he is doing of they receive 2000 letters ? There is a time and place for every thing....
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